Student: You had mentioned the metaphor of Ocean-Wave consciousness several days ago, could you explain what do you mean by the experience of an ocean while being still a wave ?,do you refer to the soul as a wave and to the ocean as the source of it ?
Rezaji: Yes, it is your personal form as a wave, which is a combination of your soul and your human interface, which is the interactive layer of the soul with this earth, and the ocean as universal consciousness or the Self ,if you wish to call it this way.

Student: Are they made of the same substance, as the wave and ocean are made of water ?
Rezaji: They are both essentially made of consciousness as everything fundamentally is made of consciousness. Yet, the wave is bounded by a form and the ocean is limitless. Your soul is bounded by personal borders which allows it to incarnate and accumulate depth and wisdom through lifetimes of being on earth. Just like a wave which return to the ocean and emerges out of it again when the wind blows, regenerating the structure of the wave.

Student: How is experienced from the point of view of the ocean ?
Rezaji: It has do with knowing directly the experience of who you are as eternal Divine consciousness, while embracing from this point of view the interactive layer with this earth, which is your human form. When your sense of identity shifts to Universal consciousness such experience can be born within you and become your reality.

Student: Doesn't attaining universal consciousness frees you from Samsara?, Why is the wave kept if the ocean is realized ?
Rezaji: The dimension which you call dimension of ignorance, or Samsara, is dimension of pure suffering and ignorance only when one is ignorant of one's true identity. Once you realize who you really are, than this dimension cease being a plain of ignorance and becomes a plain of evolution and conscious fulfilment. You are conditioned as many students are to see this dimension in black and white colors. Negative or positive. That is the character of the polarized mind. In reality this realm is neither positive or negative, it is if you wish to call it, "A service station". Just as you take your car to undergo a service, every 5,000 miles or so, such your consciousness arrives to this earth, bounded as a soul, to evolve, mature, fulfill it's predestined needs, and than return to its' source and dissolve its' boundaries. Therefore this dimension cannot be perceived in a simplistic way as negative. As it has its' significance in your evolution... Is that clear ?

Student: Yes
Rezaji: If that is clear than you can see how one's consciousness can be liberated from its' boundaries, giving birth to a state of liberation, while at the same time the soul continues to evolve and fulfill itself on earth.

Student: I am a bit confused, you make a distinction between consciousness and the soul. Isn't liberation of consciousness is the end also of evolution of the soul.
Rezaji: That is not necessarily the case. It is possible to attain relative liberation of consciousness while still having not fully fulfilled yet the reasons for your incarnation, and that will cause your incarnation again. We can say that the wave can realize that inherently it is one of the ocean, and energetically even merge back with it, yet, the gravity force from earth, will still pull it back into having a personal structure of a wave. that is another incarnation.

Student: You said "relative" liberation, and you said as well "gravity force" which pulls it back. Why only relative, isn't liberation either happened to you or not ?, and can you clarify the meaning and reason for this "gravity force".
Rezaji: It is relative because it is only partially liberated, it has not yet fulfilled the task which one was meant to fulfill in this lifetime. Therefore the merge back will lack depth of experience. Imagine it to be a messenger which was sent to a certain destination to fulfill a certain task. Yet, the messenger has forgotten the task and now he's wondering around, trying to find his way back home. Even if he finds his way back home, he still didn't fulfill its' predestined reasons for this incarnation. Therefore such awakening is only partial and relative, it is not really complete. It will be complete once one fulfils also his earthly needs. If one didn't fulfill all of ones' needs, or the vast majority of them, than the relations between these imprinted needs and dimension of earth create certain gravity force which pulls the soul into another incarnation.

Student: So basically there are different levels of liberation according to your words ?
Rezaji: Yes, exactly. Different depth of realization and completion.

Student: How come a wave which is a part of the ocean can stop being a part of it ?, isn't it something that you can't lose, because without an ocean there are no waves, that means its' a part of me, isn't it ?. I wish to add also that I read many masters in the past who told their student that they are already the ocean. Isn't it correct?
Rezaji: It is both correct and incorrect .

Student: What do you mean ?
Rezaji: Existentially you are already a part of the ocean, yet at the same time it is not your moment to moment experience, isn't it ?

Student: Not yet.
Rezaji: This is the paradox of human consciousness. While you are one with your divine identity, you are not born with this realization. You are born into forgetfulness, and you have to work your way back into the experience of who you are truly.

Student: How could that be ?. It is like saying that the shirt that I am wearing now is not seen by me, although its' on me and I wear it and see it as green.
Rezaji: Your metaphor is incorrect. It is more like sitting on the top of an iceberg and looking only towards the clouds only. Not recognizing how deep and solid the iceberg is, if you just allow yourself to deepen your view inwardly. So in this state the iceberg already has its' depth and roots within itself, but if one insists to look only outwardly then simultaneously one may think, I am so small and limited to my human form.

Student: So according to this example, any wave can see that it is actually the ocean ?. Its' just a matter of looking the right direction .
Rezaji: That's' not what I said. I said that existentially one's real identity is already present within oneself. But to realize that and merge with it fully , that's' a different story.

Student: That has to do with the maturity you mentioned in the last meeting?.
Rezaji: Precisely. Maturity and sensitivity of the soul, depth of experience on this earth etc.

Student: Does it has to do with physical age as well?. Or can one attain enlightenment in his early years?.
Rezaji: If you refer to earthly age, than you have to count all the lifetimes that one went through, as the soul incarnates with the maturity and depth it has accumulated in the previous lifetime. If you know the story of Sri Ramana Maharshi, than you know that one can attain relatively a very deep of realization in an early age. But it would be true to say that usually complete realization is usually attained in later stages of one's life.As even if one's soul is mature enough, it will take some time for one to let go of exploring various fields in one's life, to see that he actually does not have further needs in these fields of experience.

Student: I know the story of Ramana Maharshi, so you are saying that he realized that he is universal consciousness in early stages only because he had no earthly needs.
Rezaji: He had very little earthly needs. If had no earthly needs at all, than he would not have incarnated again.

Student: How could one know that his consciousness is just a wave which is a part of an ocean ?. For me at the moment its' just your words, with some experience from my side.
Rezaji: Exactly in this way.

Student: What do you mean ?
Rezaji: Through hearing me or somebody else saying that, than you have go back to your experience during your Meditation practice, and compare notes. Check if your experience is similar to what you hear here, or anywhere else.

Student: You ask me to go and compare notes ?, Isn't absolute obedience is needed when one wishes to learn from a teacher.
Rezaji: Obedience is never necessary. A spiritual guide who demands obedience from his students should be approached with extra caution, as it reflects an imbalanced personality which creates unnatural relations with his students. Yet, trust and sincerity is very much necessary in such relations. You don't need to obey anything but you have come with openness and sincerity. Than you can go back to your meditation cushion and practice according to advises given. If your experience is slowly transformed and come closer to the experience described to you, than your practice is effective and positive. If not, than you should probably search for another guide which practically helps you evolve.

Student: How can one know that he's complete and his return to the ocean has been completed?. How did you come to know that ?.
Rezaji:: He doesn't need to know. He just needs to continue being sensitive to ones' situation. Being very honest and sincere with oneself. Continuing his devoted observation and practice as a way of life, and at a certain point this practice will lead to an experience which will make him feel one with universal consciousness, the Ocean. As to my evolution, that is meaningless information for you. You have nothing practical to do with it. I am evolving just as you do, day to day, moment to moment.

Student: Does than one can ever say that he's complete and his evolution and practice is over?
Rezaji: He can say that only if one practices for the sake of attaining more than what one is. If one is interested only in evolution and further expansion than one can clearly see that evolution is eternal !!. It doesn't have an end. He also has no need or desire to end this evolution, as evolution is bliss and blessings itself.

Student: So you are saying basically that suffering and separation is always present as long as you are alive.
Rezaji: Absolutely not, that's' not what I said. Completion towards earth can be attained, so one doesn't experience any sense of Separation. Yet, evolution continues beyond the human form. One can continue to evolve on the plain of the soul and beyond it, even when one is still alive within a human form.

Student: Does that mean evolving within the ocean, although the structure of the wave is still there?
Rezaji: Exactly !.

Student: I cannot grasp what this experience feels like, but I understand the structure.
Rezaji: That is enough for now. Sometimes the mind in the name of curiousity pulls you away from your own reality and practice. just focus on practical practice which is based on your state of consciousness. There is no need to jump ahead too much.